TUCKER CARLSON: You want to eliminate the human race. How unhappy was your childhood?
LES KNIGHT, FOUNDER, VOLUNTARY HUMAN EXTINCTION MOVEMENT: I know, a lot of people think that. No, no.
CARLSON: It's an obvious conclusion. Why would you want to do that? What would you want to be-want people to become extinct?
KNIGHT: Well, it's either us or millions of other species going extinct. You know, before we go too far, I should explain that this is through voluntarily not breeding.
CARLSON: Right.
KNIGHT: We're not advocating...
CARLSON: You're not calling for genocide.
KNIGHT: No, or any kind of increase in death. We're calling for a decrease in death, actually.
CARLSON: OK. But you're calling for people to go away. I guess the obvious answer is what if we prefer our species to those other species? Right? I mean, isn't it fair for human beings to want to perpetuate their own species?
KNIGHT: Well, it would be fair if that's all we did and if we let the others also survive and exist, if we could peacefully coexist. But ever since we became homo sapiens, we haven't been able to do that.
CARLSON: What do you mean? I mean, there are many species of plant and animal that are thriving.
KNIGHT: We still haven't gotten to them yet. We're working on it though.
CARLSON: But that's literally true. I mean, there are all sorts of, you know, insects and algae.
KNIGHT: You bet.
CARLSON: There are a lot of living things on this Earth, and a lot of them are doing quite well.
KNIGHT: They are, yes, especially the ones that can adapt to our civilizations, like pigeons and rats. But there are many species which have gone extinct, due to our increase. There are so many of us. Wherever we live, not much else lives.
CARLSON: So what's the point of saving the earth if there would be people around to enjoy it?
KNIGHT: Well, I know that's a question a lot of people ask. And it's obvious that they're not thinking about all the other species. We are just one of 10 million. Who knows how many? We've only catalogued two million. And to think that we -- the entire planet is just for us is rather human centered.
CARLSON: Of course it's human centered. We're humans. Now you apparently, I was reading that there are parents in this group?
KNIGHT: Sure.
CARLSON: What do your children say? What do you say to your kids? "Yes, I joined a group that is opposed to you"?
KNIGHT: No, no. We're not opposed to existing children. In fact, that's a large part of it. We're not taking care of the children that are already here. How can we, in good conscience, create more children when so many are dying of preventable cause?
CARLSON: But wait a second. What do you mean you're not against children? If I'm-if I hire an exterminator to kill the rats in my basement, I'm against rats. You're against having more children come into the world, so you're anti-children. I mean, how are you not?
KNIGHT: No, no. We're pro-children once the child is here. What we're against is conception.
CARLSON: That is so wildly anti-human. I mean, don't you see beauty in the creation of human life?
KNIGHT: Well, I see beauty in the creation of almost all lives. There's a trade off here. The more of us, the fewer of them. I mean, baby humans are cute, but so are baby pandas.
CARLSON: I don't know, how about baby maggots? Are they as cute as a baby child?
KNIGHT: They may not be as cute, but you know, their existence is far more essential to the Earth's biosphere than homo sapiens.
CARLSON: OK. So you see a moral equivalence between the birth of a maggot baby and the birth of a human baby?
KNIGHT: Well, that's twisting it a bit.
CARLSON: I don't know. I'm trying to listen to what you think.
KNIGHT: When you think of the biosphere as a whole and how ecosystems interact with each other, when an exotic invader comes in, as we are, and starts disrupting the other species...
CARLSON: Exotic. Are you a Scientologist? What do you mean, invader? We're not invaders. We're from here.
KNIGHT: Well, we've only been on the North American continent about 20,000 years, which is pretty recent. Each time homo sapiens move into a continent, a spasm of extinctions occur. And we are continuing it today.
CARLSON: If you don't mind my asking, who did you vote for in the last election?
KNIGHT: You know, I can't remember. Somebody asked me that the other day. Didn't seem that important.
CARLSON: Yes. What are your politics, generally?
KNIGHT: I'm an anarchist. But you know, the full range of political thought exists within the movement.
CARLSON: Interesting. And there are children in the movement, too?
KNIGHT: Yes. You know, I think the youngest is about 10. There aren't really very many. But a lot of people who are in the movement think -- have said that they thought of this when they were 6 or 7. It's not a really complicated thing to realize that Earth's biosphere is being disrupted by one species, and that one species is us.
CARLSON: I will say, that is the sickest thing I think I've ever heard, but you are one of the cheeriest guests we've ever had. I don't know how to-how the two fit together, but I appreciate you coming on. Thanks a lot.
KNIGHT: Thank you, Tucker.
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